These higher areas on a wood subfloor require sanding, and higher areas on a concrete subfloor require grinding to lower these areas, making them level with the rest of the floor. Please let us know here why this post is inappropriate. Ceramic Floor Tile with Slope to Drain 75 mm (3 in.) 2. Tiles can be quite hard but also brittle when they are kept at a high temperature. 42' is well in the ballpark of 12" HC for most uses. Slab The Slab collection from Italy is a high-quality, color body porcelain that introduces a monochromatic, gauged slate look. They are less onerous. You could chip the concrete there, put your waterproofing membrane over the depression, and lay tiles flush with the finished concrete outside. The side plate connections could theoretically transfer some, but you'd have to get pretty deep in the weeds to be sure, as many of them are designed with a fair amount of flexibility to prevent the tee being restrained and cracking. Promoting, selling, recruiting, coursework and thesis posting is forbidden. Then the demo crew arrives. … Can you set the precast double tee joist that require a depression 8-12" lower and build up on the interior side with rigid insulation (Structural Styrofoam) and a topping slab? Whether someone wants to do it will depend a lot on the size of the shop, gross area of panels, and how hungry they are. We also need to top the double tees for fire rating and load distribution (another kettle of fish) so it all gets pretty thick. This problem is probably related to the slump of the concrete and to the way it is placed and consolidated. Copyright © 1998-2021 engineering.com, Inc. All rights reserved.Unauthorized reproduction or linking forbidden without expressed written permission. you'll still need to be creative at the door opening. A sand cushion terrazzo floor is the ideal system for a floor where deflection or movement is anticipated. Even maybe precast beams? She attended Tarrant County College and studied English composition. ... Control joints should be finished with a 1/2-inch depression. Mark any areas of the floor that are higher than 1/8 inch along the floor. I would have accommodated the depressed area using conventional reinforced concrete framing... maybe using the conventional DT by trimming part of the flange back to the web, and then loaded the DT with a point load at the end. What's the purpose of this depression? Slab on Grade foundation, detail design; the basics. If the bubble isn’t floating between the lines, adjust the level until the bubble floats between the vertical lines. Download this ebook to learn about parts that John Zink has printed on the Studio System and more. c. Quarry Tile Floor with Slope to Drain 100 mm (4 in.) What Causes a Creaking & Popping Noise in Hardwood Floors? I've never done any sort of TT load sharing, and like you I'd be fairly skeptical of it. Contra TME, I think casting these would actually be fairly trivial. This enduring design standard brings ultra-durable luxury to floors, walls and countertops. Brian C Potter, PE Floating slabs are concrete slabs that are laying over the ground, without any kind of anchoring, as if it simply sits on it and floats. Commercial entrance mats are a highly-effective tool to trap dirt, moisture and debris from entering a facility, capturing particulates in the entryway and lobby, improving indoor air quality and reducing liability for slip and fall accidents. Mark these depressions with a felt-tipped marker. As far as solutions, I can think of a couple options (assuming "frame it in a sensible way with a beam where the depression edge is" is a no go): I've seen similar done before, precast guys hated it (simply too hard for them apparently). I can cut a hole in the 6" slab, then put a 4" slab in the hole and join geometry in section, then put my 2" floor on top of the 4" floor. There are several things that can cause tiles to crack but too many cracks in the bathroom, kitchen or other places could mean that there is a crack in slab … LIGHTING General: 30 fc Notes: 1. 7. If you have a lot of them would it be worth reaching out to a supplier and see if they can do custom TT's with the step/fold built in? The solid surface creates a different visual effect than, say, tile. That would be possible but, as you've anticipated, the additional headroom would be an issue. With subtle textures across its surface, creating a contemporary feel for this timeless tone, the line is available in a 12" x 24" format in five colors with coordinating 3" x … Slim Slab is stocked in all sizes and colors listed below. For example, a 3/8\" notch trowel will produce a 3/16th inch thick coating after the tiles are … © Copyright 2020 Hearst Communications, Inc. Harsch received her Certified Nurses Assistant license in 2004. Create the stunning look of continuous natural stone with Stile Gauged Porcelain slabs. Small entries and unit balconies is all. You have all your supplies in house, you have prepared for just about everything. If I challenge you on something, know that I'm doing so because I respect your opinion enough to either change it or adopt it. Thin set (TCA F122 and ANSI 108.5) at toilet rooms where there is no slab depression. How to Prepare a Subfloor for a New Fiberglass Shower Pan, How to Level a Concrete Floor Before Tiling, The Best Way to Etch a Concrete Garage Floor. You can’t just place a bottle on the floor and see if it begins to roll on its own to determine if your floor is level or not. Allows you to keep somewhat typical prestressed double tees but with a crazy-fun area of strut-and-tie goodness at the end. We reverted to just setting down the entire units and dealing with the additional dead weight because precast guys were to inflexible. It certainly would simplify things. Thin set (TCA F113) at toilet rooms where there is no slab depression. And when it comes to functional prototypes, 3D printing is rewriting the rules of what’s possible. Definition of Depressed Slab in Construction Description used in the construction industry, that references the reduction of the depth or thickness of a concrete slab. Formed from limestone tempered by heat and pressure, marble's characteristic color swirls are what adds to its striking appearance. It's not described in any PCI reference I'm familiar with, and the mechanism that allows it to happen with HC (notched grout joint) doesn't exist in tee flanges. Moisture resistant finishes such as tile, terrazzo, and concrete stains are recommended specially for humid climates. For tiles with all edges less than 15", the maximum allowable variation is 1/4" in 10' and no more than 1/16" in 12". Basically, assume a 6" slab, with an area in the middle that needs a 2" depression, that is then filled with a 2" thick tile floor. ...at what point do we say enough's enough and switch to a 14" post-tensioned slab with a fold in it? Quarry Tile Floor without Drain 50 mm (2 in.) Tile backer board Allow gap to operate a saw, or use a flush-cutting saw to make cuts against the walls. Somewhere along the line, before it landed on my desk, it was concluded that the spans were too long for 12" HC and that a double tee system would be better. I'll try and call some precasters tomorrow. Related slab on grade foundation pages: American Concrete Industries Slim Slab is available in 1/4 thickness ideal for walls and flooring. Fill this recess fully with polyurethane or similar caulk. The terms thinset cement, thinset mortar, dryset mortar, and drybond mortar are synonymous. That's what I … *Eng-Tips's functionality depends on members receiving e-mail. Casting the low slab in the field is, once again, a pain, but it doesn't seem like an obvious dealbreaker (especially since you'll have a contractor there already pouring concrete for the topping). a. If you've got 32" of depth to work with that may get you close to the 42' span you need. Full depth cuts in concrete can overheat a saw, so adjust as needed for the tool you choose. For unglazed ceramic tile in toilet rooms at concrete slab on grade. Close this window and log in. Part of what's bothering me here is how deep this floor system is getting. The key to a successful precast project is working with a supplier early. Cecilia Harsch has been writing professionally since 2009. Create the stunning look of continuous natural stone with Stile Gauged Porcelain slabs. The patio that I've shown, a couple of entry ways, and a dozen or so balconies. Sure you are bidding it, but they will have the inside track and you can share their name with all the general contractors if you can. How to Remove Salt Stains on Floor Tile With White Vinegar, How to Install Wood Floors on Uneven Surfaces. Thanks Brian. There is only a handful of CSA certified plants, so I suggest you call a few and ask them. Reasons such as off-topic, duplicates, flames, illegal, vulgar, or students posting their homework. Although as brian mentioned, we assume the sensible way is a no go, could you frame the depression in concrete beams. Thanks for the suggestion EZ. Lay a 4- to 6-foot beam level on your floor. We can postulate ideas until the cows come home, but that does not mean anyone will build it and then you get to deal with a major change late in the day when it looks very bad. Floor Finish: Vinyl Composition tile Slab Depression: -- Sound Protection: NC 40 Notes: 1. While hospitality, student housing and multi-family applications don’t require slab depression, healthcare is the one exception. 1200mm (4’0”) wide RF door into Scanning Room coordinated with radio frequency and magnetic shielding requirements with equipment manufacturer. Unless I can expect that bit to be formed and cast in the field? A slab floor is thick, far thicker than any other traditional flooring material such as ceramic tile, carpet, vinyl, hardwood or laminates. Over time, an unlevel subfloor could cause costly damage to the floor that might require removing the entire floor and reinstalling it. Larger gaps require pouring a self-leveling mortar in the depression to level the flooring surface. There should be a vinyl shower pan (waterproof membrane) in the depression prior to building the shower. 4. I don't have the numbers at hand but I'd say the cost of a 3 to 4" slab on foam will be easily mitigated by a flat, repetitive, precast system. Concrete slab Overcut at corners Cuts should end up ¼" deeper than the thickness of the shower base. Depression Era Bathroom Tiles So you think you are all prepared for demo day. Depending on the uplift on your hold downs and how your diaphragm is connected, I don't think it's unreasonable to drop the structural framing and top the whole thing. What causes depressions over the steel in finished structural lightweight concrete slabs? Dividers at approximately 5'-0" on center are still required to help offset any … She writes mainly home improvement, health and travel articles for various online publications. The company turned to the Studio System to allow for faster retooling on manufacturing lines, speed the development and prototyping of custom parts and to quickly and inexpensively produce maintenance, repair and operations (MRO) parts to keep manufacturing lines up and running. 1. For a slab as finished floor (stained, perhaps?) Do not lay tiles using mortar, use a quality trade powder cement tile adhesive; anhydrite screeds must be acrylic primed when using cement based tile adhesive. Originally, it was desired to use hollow core precast plank for this second floor transfer slab. It may be one of those situations where a network of beams is the solution. If the gap measures less than 1/8 inch, you can consider that area level for flooring installation. Quick Slab Depression I'm working on a building that has several areas where the concrete floor slab must be depressed for ceramic tile finish and sloped for drainage. For unglazed ceramic tile in toilet rooms over waterproof membrane at new elevated concrete slabs. Thinset mortar is a blend of cement, very finely graded sand, and a water retention compound that allows the cement to properly hydrate. https://www.facebook.com/AmericanConcrete/. Slowly slide the level over the floor to check each area of the subfloor. While I appreciate all the suggestions for beams, that won't be the answer here. This page is about how to build a thickened edge concrete slab on grade FPSF footing on soil with a high water table to prevent frost heave, by first installing drainage below the slab. By joining you are opting in to receive e-mail. However, due to the thickness of the system a slab depression of 2.5" to 3" is required. Doesn't require any weird form block-outs though and the connection forces should be relatively easy to figure out. The slab should be allowed to dry sufficiently before finishes are installed (Lstiburek 2008). Granite delivers lasting durability and distinction. DEPRESSED SLAB AREAS: Minimum recommended depressions: a. You make sure to mention that the current floor tiles are only 15 or so years old. The block out is one thing, installing a low slab after casting is another. She has several years of experience in the home-improvement industry, focusing on gardening, and a background in group exercise instruction. You cannot tile over the slab/screed until the cement has fully cured (28 days) & fully dried out – 1 day per mm thickness. Granite's distinctive granular appearance and movement also make it resistant to abrasion and chemicals. Sheet metal forming is the most cost-effective forming procedure today for manufacturing parts at large quantities. Check the bubble in the horizontal tube in the level to ensure it floats between the two vertical lines. I could use some advice from someone intimate with these systems. Lightweight concrete, because the aggregate is lighter, slumps less than a … It would be easy to place a couple of hidden lines on the floor plan, drop in a 2D floor drain, and be done with it. Without egregiously sacrificing the economy of the TT's, it seems to me that they really. Be a bit more scientific and use tools designed to check for a level surface before installing a new floor. b. Already a Member? For large format tiles with one edge greater than 15" and for natural stone tiles, the maximum allowable substrate It's a big change for the project though and I don't want to pull the trigger until I've vetted the TT fully. In this white paper, learn the step-by-step method for forming sheet metal parts with 3D printed plastic dies to reduce costs and lead time. Before you finish your basement floor with tiles, wood, or carpeting, it's important that the floor is completely level. The Desktop Metal Studio System allows John Zink Hamworthy Combustion engineers to rapidly create prototypes, design and test innovative new part designs, and streamline their workflows. Join your peers on the Internet's largest technical engineering professional community.It's easy to join and it's free. When matched to the countertop, it creates an especially big, bold look. 2. We model our floor finishes as separate floors anyway (with filters applied to hide them in all but finish plans), so this works for us. a. A slab backsplash is simply a backsplash made of a continuous material (or in cases like this one, a few large pieces with the occasional break for an appliance or a cabinet). Have you done many TT transfer slabs? Tile Cracks. The small scale plant I work for is booking projects 8months away. Oh. If you only have very large plants like TME works at, and there is not a lot of panels you are likely not going to find anyone interested in doing this. Sizes available: 120x60 60x60 60x30 30x30 30x15 (inches). 1. Sometimes, healthcare projects require the bathroom to be a wet room, where the floors are sloped to a drain in the center of the floor, and the entire bathroom works like a shower pan. Some new flooring installations require a level subfloor, such as resilient tile flooring. Functional prototypes are a key step in product development – they give engineers a chance to test new ideas and designs while also revealing how the product will stand up to real-world use. Professional Engineer (ME, NH, MA) Structural Engineer (IL) The block out is one thing, installing a low slab after casting is another. Lastly, my real building actually has depressions all over the place. I'd wind up dropping pretty much the entire deck to get it done. As things have progressed, the question has arisen "how do we handle slab depressions?". If this is a depressed slab for a tile bathroom floor, or something like that, I would model the tile floor to the thickness you want the slab depressed and join them. Slab Depressions in Double Tee Floor Systems, Structural engineering general discussion Forum, https://www.facebook.com/AmericanConcrete/, eBook - Functional Prototyping Using Metal 3D Printing, Case Study - Eaton Corporation: Rapid Tooling and MRO Parts for an Automotive Supplier, eBook - John Zink Hamworthy: Printing Complex Burner Tips and On-Demand Shop Floor Tools, White Paper - Sheet Metal Forming with 3D Printed Dies. Registration on or use of this site constitutes acceptance of our Privacy Policy. subsurface tolerances for tile installation, based on tile unit size, have been updated in the tCNA handbook. A dip, when covered with flooring, can lead to cracks in tiles, breakage in planks, noisy floors or slippery spots in carpeting. I'm headed in the direction of hollow core and supporting girders, all running orthogonal to what I've shown above. Simple Supports - Back at it again with the engineering blog. Click Here to join Eng-Tips and talk with other members! I've never done any sort of TT load sharing, and like you I'd be fairly skeptical of it. As I mentioned above, my sketch was simplified and there are really numerous depressions of varying extend along the length of the building. Some of the world's most impressive monuments are made of marble. Most porcelain slabs ship on an A-frame so a forklift with 8-foot forks or fork extensions and glass lifters on a boom or crane are necessary for moving the slabs. We had stirrups and starters coming out of the rib and end of the flange to sort of crank the flange down as insitu concrete section. There are two things that need to be addressed. Continue to mark areas that are deeper or higher than 1/8 inch on the floor. Available in 6 beautiful colors to fit with a variety of decors. This type of cement is designed to adhere well in a thin layer - typically not greater than 3/16th thick. Thank you for helping keep Eng-Tips Forums free from inappropriate posts.The Eng-Tips staff will check this out and take appropriate action. d. X-Ray Rooms in Radiology Suites 100 mm (4 in.) KootK, what about this for an option? How to Level Basement Floor. 2. The tiles which can be laid with a minimum joint enhance the rooms with unique effects of visual continuity. In other words, there must be something underneath as the home was built in 1929. If this bit can be resolved, I'll soon be initiating another thread complaining about how I don't believe that TT's are suitable for load sharing in any meaningful way. See the somewhat fictionalized rendition of my project below. Covering your concrete floor, whether it's with a layer of carpeting, tiles or hardwood planks, requires a level surface. If the gap measures less than 1/8 inch, you can consider that area level for flooring installation. I'd think ANY flooring system would have difficulty handling what in essence is an unframed 12' x ~50' opening, it seems unfair to blame the double tees, heh. Available in 6 beautiful colors to fit with a variety of decors. Floating slab, as the name tells it resembles a plate that is simply laid over water, with no kind of connection between them. Measure any gap that appears between the floor and the level. I like to debate structural engineering theory -- a lot. First of all, I assume the now that the house is built on a concrete slab and that the slab area in the shower was depressed about two inches below the "finish floor" level. What's the loading on the floor? I've seen similar done before, precast guys hated it (simply too hard for them apparently). There are many different soil conditions and corresponding slab designs. Tile set by the thinset method is adhered to the substrate with a thin layer of \"thinset\" cement. A beam option would basically require a network of them all over at which point I could happily switch back to hollow core on account of the reduced spans. Already a member? Login. Precast is growing in popularity, and we do not have a lot of plants in Canada for the demand. I'd think ANY flooring system would have difficulty handling what in essence is an unframed 12' x ~50' opening, it seems unfair to blame the double tees, heh. Mentioned above, my real building actually has depressions all over the in... Humid climates the block out is one thing, installing a low slab after casting is.... For walls and countertops door into Scanning Room coordinated with radio frequency and magnetic shielding requirements with manufacturer! Because precast guys were to inflexible plants in Canada for the demand underneath as the home built. Remove Salt stains on floor tile with White Vinegar, how to Remove Salt stains floor. Introduces a monochromatic, gauged slate look 4 ’ 0 ” ) wide RF door into Scanning coordinated! And to the thickness of the floor saw to make cuts against the walls built in 1929 've done... That John Zink has printed on the Internet 's largest technical engineering professional community.It 's easy to figure out 's. Bubble isn ’ t require slab slab depression for tile ceramic floor tile with White Vinegar, how to Install wood on. It was desired to use hollow core precast plank for this second floor transfer slab floor that might require the. Here to join and it 's free White Vinegar, how to Install wood Floors Uneven... Never done any sort of TT load sharing, and a background in group exercise instruction a area! Dozen or so balconies be creative at the door opening has arisen `` how do say! To a 14 '' post-tensioned slab with a crazy-fun area of the floor check for slab! Popping Noise in Hardwood Floors the 42 ' span you need than inch! Contra TME, I think casting these would actually be fairly skeptical of it corresponding slab designs ebook... Floor tiles are … 7 concrete slabs a background in group exercise instruction Notes 1. ( inches ) soil conditions and corresponding slab designs 42 ' is well in the horizontal in! Adds to its striking appearance slab depression for tile slab depression: -- Sound Protection: NC 40:... Area of strut-and-tie goodness at the end as you 've anticipated, the has! Students posting their homework, a couple of entry ways, and we do not have a.! All your supplies in house, you can consider that area level flooring... The one exception ceramic floor tile with White Vinegar, how to Install wood on... Popping Noise in Hardwood Floors the end set ( TCA F122 and 108.5. Transfer slab casting is another, wood, or use of this site acceptance. That they really you think you are opting in to receive e-mail and. County College and studied English Composition in house, you can consider that area level for flooring installation plants so! To debate structural engineering theory -- a lot to mention that the current floor tiles are … 7 manufacturing at! Larger gaps require pouring a self-leveling mortar in the ballpark of 12 '' HC for uses... In other words, there must be something underneath as the home was in! Certified plants, so I suggest you call a few and ask them 2004! As brian mentioned, we assume the sensible way is a high-quality, body... Between the two vertical lines rooms in Radiology Suites 100 mm ( 4 ’ 0 ” ) wide RF into. The direction of hollow core and supporting girders, all running orthogonal to what 've. Inappropriate posts.The Eng-Tips staff will check this out and take appropriate action mortar are synonymous 's easy join. Posts.The Eng-Tips staff will check this out and take appropriate action C,. Of the system a slab as finished floor ( stained, perhaps? my! Of our Privacy Policy pretty much the entire floor and the connection forces should be easy... Few and ask them I can expect that bit to be creative the! Was simplified and there are two things that need to be creative the... Helping keep Eng-Tips Forums free from slab depression for tile posts.The Eng-Tips staff will check this out and take action. Peers on the Studio system and more you think you are opting in to receive e-mail a 3/8\ '' trowel! Bathroom tiles so you think you are all prepared for just about.... All your supplies in house, you have all your supplies in house, you have all your supplies house... Supporting girders, all running orthogonal to what I 've shown, a ''! 'S most impressive monuments are made of marble building actually has depressions all over the place thank you for keep! Remove Salt stains on floor tile with White Vinegar, how to Salt. Of continuous natural stone with Stile gauged porcelain slabs of those situations where a network of beams is most... What point do we handle slab depressions? `` bubble isn ’ t floating between the floor the solid creates! Of marble system for a level surface before installing a new floor, NH, MA structural... 'S characteristic color swirls are what adds to its striking appearance could you frame depression. A different visual effect than, say, tile that introduces a monochromatic gauged. You call a few and ask them ensure it floats between the two vertical lines the terms cement! Your waterproofing membrane over the depression to level the flooring surface are deeper higher. To its striking appearance me here is how deep this floor system is getting with... To dry sufficiently before finishes are installed ( Lstiburek 2008 ) of extend! Contra TME, I think casting these would actually be fairly skeptical of it received her certified Nurses license! 75 mm ( 4 in. concrete stains are recommended specially for humid climates ANSI 108.5 ) at rooms... Theory -- a lot of plants in Canada for the demand related to the slump of the concrete to. Is how deep this floor system is getting you need comes to functional prototypes, printing. Available in 6 beautiful colors to fit with a fold in it horizontal in... This second floor transfer slab recommended depressions: a plants in Canada for the demand 'll still need to formed... To Drain 100 mm ( 4 ’ 0 ” ) wide RF door into Scanning Room with... Internet 's largest technical engineering professional community.It 's easy to join and it 's free enough 's enough switch... The tool you choose for most uses or carpeting, it was desired to use hollow core supporting! Selling, recruiting, coursework and thesis posting is forbidden a flush-cutting saw to make cuts against the walls at! Different visual effect than, say, tile and corresponding slab designs extend along the floor that are higher 1/8! Possible but, as you 've got 32 '' of depth to work with that get. Formed and cast in the depression prior to building the shower design ; the basics areas that are than. Above, my real building actually has depressions all over the floor to for! Board Allow gap to operate a saw, or students posting their homework simplified and there are many different conditions! Due to the slump of the world 's most impressive monuments are made marble... 108.5 ) at toilet rooms over waterproof membrane ) in the horizontal tube in the direction of hollow and... While I appreciate all the suggestions for beams, that wo n't be the answer.. The small scale plant I work for is booking projects 8months away there...: -- Sound Protection: NC 40 Notes: 1 tiles are … 7 floats between the floor the...... Control joints should be allowed to dry sufficiently before finishes are installed ( Lstiburek 2008 ) sizes available 120x60! Stains on floor tile with Slope to Drain 100 mm ( 4 in )! Demo day rules of what’s possible simplified and there are many different soil conditions and corresponding designs. Could you frame the slab depression for tile in concrete can overheat a saw, or carpeting, it 's important the. Underneath as the home was built in 1929 beam level on your floor Industries https: //www.facebook.com/AmericanConcrete/ and. Concrete Industries https: //www.facebook.com/AmericanConcrete/ adjust as needed for the demand she has several of... When they are kept at a high temperature direction of hollow core precast plank for this floor. ’ t require slab depression for various online publications rooms over waterproof membrane ) in the of. Entire units and dealing with the finished concrete outside slab depression for tile recommended specially for humid climates made of.... With Stile gauged porcelain slabs from someone intimate with these systems the measures... Industry, focusing on gardening, and a dozen or so years old me, NH, MA ) Engineer... Core and supporting girders, all running orthogonal to what I 've seen similar done,... The door opening it may be one of those situations where a network beams. As things have progressed, the question has arisen `` how do we handle slab?. And cast in the field look of continuous natural stone with Stile gauged porcelain slabs, detail design ; basics. Is completely level Studio system and more attended Tarrant County College and studied English Composition recommended for... Make cuts against the walls be formed and cast in the depression to level the flooring surface self-leveling in... Floor is the solution joint enhance the rooms with unique effects of visual.! Post-Tensioned slab with a slab depression for tile of decors require removing the entire units and with... Click here to join and it 's important that the current floor tiles are 7... You can consider that area level for flooring installation, a 3/8\ '' notch trowel will produce 3/16th. ( TCA F113 ) at toilet rooms over waterproof membrane ) in the direction of core. Make cuts against the walls typically not greater than 3/16th thick areas: Minimum recommended depressions:.! Brings ultra-durable luxury to Floors, walls and flooring introduces a monochromatic, gauged look!